tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post4564996683022811032..comments2010-11-10T10:22:33.113-06:00Comments on Ask Aunt Messy: She Who Holds the Purse Strings....Aunt Messyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07424781871244170075noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-71422847127813689282009-12-26T13:37:46.985-06:002009-12-26T13:37:46.985-06:00What a mess! The whole family and would be family...What a mess! The whole family and would be family member should just immerse themselves into one of the great lakes and meditate about fish being so much smarter than silly human beings....<br /><br />Happy New Year!<br /><br />(love the photograph!)Katihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645682203535768013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-33927234678106804242009-12-22T14:23:36.084-06:002009-12-22T14:23:36.084-06:00I see where you're coming from, CoolOne, and I...I see where you're coming from, CoolOne, and I do agree. However, I think it's too early to see how the lad's going to turn out. He's only 24, after all. There's still a chance that he'll choose to be independent, and I have hope for that because he has at least lived away from home for a long time. <br /><br />I would give him a year to get himself together. After that, if he's still taking money from his parents (and really, it's NOT NORMAL for parents to subsidize Ph.D. students), then she has some hard thinking to do. <br /><br />Damn, that money is addictive, though.Aunt Messyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424781871244170075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-63731253272446291102009-12-22T12:57:38.872-06:002009-12-22T12:57:38.872-06:00Not to side with Psycho Mom (because she truly is,...Not to side with Psycho Mom (because she truly is, if as described.) However, if she is funding WEEKLY trips to Chicago, I can understand her feeling there's a sort of double life. After all, he takes her money, but she apparently has little time where she actually sees him.<br /><br />Now if I were Psycho Mom, I wouldn't waste my breath. I'd tell him I can't continue to fund these weekly get-aways. She isn't bright enough to figure this out, or else Dad is the one actually holding the checkbook. He apparently thinks Mom isn't TOO unreasonable, because he doesn't make overt efforts to stop her.<br /><br />Little Ms. Letter Writer really shoudl reconsider whether she wants to get involved with this wealthy but disfunctional lot. Just because the man (living like a boy off his parents) moves to Timbuktu doesn't mean Psycho Mom won't follow. I've known several people whose families of origin moved every time they did, until they finally gave up and gave in to being emasculated (it's usually a male) by their mothers.CoolOnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12220187158350943016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-21422293197641677392009-12-22T11:35:35.029-06:002009-12-22T11:35:35.029-06:00Well, I see what you mean, Messy, and, in general,...Well, I see what you mean, Messy, and, in general, I agree. I was under the impression that the LW had already made her feelings clear to her BF. That said, I'll back off of her for now (mostly).<br /><br />However, if what you say is true and if the BF is proposing to basically cut off all ties to his parents after he graduates and has them fund his education, room, board, travels, luxuries, then your second to the last paragraph, above, about the ramifications, ought to be exactly what they do NOW. Not later. How could he possibly take money from his parents under such pretenses? And spend it so wastefully (traveling that distance every weekend? having to work for himself? Oh no! no cell phone? Will it never end? That's like bamboo shards under his manicured fingernails, I guess?). Having worked full time through college while supporting a family, Messy, during a time where we didn't see a single movie, eat out, or ever trave--anywhere--I have no sympathy (not that they're looking for my sympathy), but, if true, the BF's actions are patently dishonest, dishonorable, and entitled. And the LW endorses this? And wants to spend her time with this man? (and doesn't appear to see anything wrong with it?) I suppose youth could play a part here, but, it says a lot about character to me. I know that you know what I mean, even if I'm not saying it very clearly. And I'm probably not, but, holy crap, the entitlement here seems just preposterous! Please tell me that I'm wrong. It's the Christmas season and I want to be happy. :-)SmagBoy1https://www.blogger.com/profile/06579694369460538262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-19197276635748956212009-12-22T09:55:48.560-06:002009-12-22T09:55:48.560-06:00Egad! Not on the spot! Now quit apologizing, big g...Egad! Not on the spot! Now quit apologizing, big guy, you know I welcome all comments.<br /><br />Yes. I would say that the LW is on the verge of behaving badly. She hasn't said anything to him yet, though. I think she's also fully cognizant that if she does show how angry and frustrated the situation is making her, it could be a setback to the relationship. Add to that that she KNOWS that much of this problem is self-limiting - he's going to graduate soon - she asked for advice before flying off the handle. <br /><br />All that doesn't make her act like his mother. His mother has been whining and acting like a toddler for her entire life. She's just been able to get away with it.<br /><br />It's an angry moment for the LW. Her BFs mother made a blatant play for control (over the holiday dates) and managed to force her son to cave. Worse, it was all about the money. The question the LW has to ask herself is how far she's willing to tolerate his apparent willingness to give in to blackmail rather than stand up for himself. <br /><br />On the other hand, she sees her BF every weekend and has had to listen to him complain about his mother for a year and a half. I'd be irritated with him, too. She's approaching this in a very analytical way and in essence wants to tell him to shit or get off the pot. If his problems were half as bad as they SOUND to her every weekend, then she doesn't understand how on Earth he hasn't dealt with them already.<br /><br />I get that. I do. There are ramifications to this that she probably hasn't thought through. If her BF says something to his mother now, he's running the real risk of being cut off. This means no apartment, no visits to Chicago, having to potentially get a part time job (and the LW is right, if he can avoid that it would be good), he may not even be able to afford his cell phone any more. <br /><br />Both of them need to wait until he is well away from his mother. THEN the LW needs to watch how he acts. See, he's never had to live without a net before. If he feels he can't do that and permits his mother to force him to fly home every couple of weeks so he can subsidize rent on a nicer place than he can afford, THAT'S going to be the problem and THAT'S the appropriate time for an ultimatum.Aunt Messyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424781871244170075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-26948114862236080122009-12-22T09:36:38.762-06:002009-12-22T09:36:38.762-06:00Okay, Messy, I'm going to take advantage of th...Okay, Messy, I'm going to take advantage of this format and put you on the spot, because it's not often one gets to directly question the advice-giver after advice is given. And I do apologize for doing it, and you can obviously delete this comment, but, if you're willing, do you agree that the LW might want to check herself and notice that her attitude it approaching dangerously near the attitude that she attributes to the future MIL? The problem there is that, though the LW can recognize this in herself and change it, what does that say of her choice of man? Is he destined to be like the future FIL, a shell of a man, knowing something's wrong, but powerless to change it? It's not a coincidence that, if we're not careful (assuming we need to be) we often seek out our parents' attributes in our mates, and, too, often become our parents.SmagBoy1https://www.blogger.com/profile/06579694369460538262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-11027882355039198932009-12-22T08:57:35.590-06:002009-12-22T08:57:35.590-06:00I agree with both of you. It's all about the m...I agree with both of you. It's all about the money. Yes, the parents are funding the BFs lifestyle and it seems very difficult for him to let that go. The LW didn't say, but I have to conclude that this has been going on from the beginning. All the way through boarding school and undergrad, the BF has had a pretty good revenue stream coming from his parents.<br /><br />Now, the mother is slightly bonkers, but she has the Mommy-Guilt thing down pat. She's using a combination of, "Look what we've done for you, paying your expenses for all these years," and, "You abandoned me for six years already, how can you do this to me!"<br /><br />Mom seems like she's definitely cast the LW as The Enemy, which is a load of BS, and the LW knows that. It's just an excuse. Given the mother's other behavior, I don't think this is going to change. If those two do marry in the end, I can see big hassles coming from dear old Mom. They'll be at their 30th anniversary and she'll STILL be ranting about this. <br /><br />Still, after all of this mess, things CAN turn out well. The LW says that her BF is getting very frustrated with the whole situation, which is a good thing. Here's hoping he gets frustrated enough to tell his mother to shut up. But now is not the time. He needs to finish his Master's degree and that's a matter of what? Twelve or sixteen weeks? <br /><br />That's the problem with the ultimatum that the LW wants to lay down. NOW IS NOT THE TIME. I understand she's frustrated about the Christmas arrangements, but one week in a potentially life-long relationship is NOTHING.<br /><br />I fully understand where she's coming from, and she's right. There will be no relationship if her BF doesn't get a grip and tell his mother to back off. But first he has to stop taking the money. HAS TO. They don't get to have it both ways. They need distance and space to make this relationship work and shouldn't even consider marrying until all of these issues are hammered out.<br /><br />As a side note: Smag, I did ignore the mother's real issues and that was deliberate. The mother's problems are no doubt many and varied, but they only matter insofar as they directly affect the LW and her boyfriend. Do I think Mom could use a trip to a nice quiet place and some meds? Sure. Is that going to happen? I doubt it very much, and I don't much care. <br /><br />The thing is, we cannot change people, ever. We can only change the way we respond to them. The response is what needs to change here.Aunt Messyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424781871244170075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-41924983943044410822009-12-22T08:13:56.686-06:002009-12-22T08:13:56.686-06:00Ah, yes: I'd like to swing a cat and take a cr...Ah, yes: I'd like to swing a cat and take a crack at this one! Still, she's already on the ball right here: "...I hate to see him miserable, but I have a hard time sympathizing with someone's situation when they just let it continue. If he continues to allow his mother to do these things to him, my sympathy is going to run out."<br /><br />A matter of choices and time, indeed.<br /><br />The danger zone: you added "He will be in a Program far from his Home and will be able to Act as His Own conscience dictates." I fear not - the stings of aprons are sewn of emotional fabric far, far more dysfunctional than the ether of distance can sever. Mommies are a disease sometimes, and the cure isn't geographically curable.<br /><br />I must say in the end you still, as ever, do very nice work, my dear. Toodles!Schuyler =^oo^=https://www.blogger.com/profile/05022527448487356922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2394542802435937200.post-44150570798680573792009-12-22T08:07:00.225-06:002009-12-22T08:07:00.225-06:00Wonderful Advice, as always, Aunt Messy. But I ha...Wonderful Advice, as always, Aunt Messy. But I have a few questions, though, that I think will shed some light on our LW and the BF's situation. How is it that BF gets to come to Chicago every weekend from CA? If he drives, he'd have no time to spend in Chicago, so, he obviously flies. That being the case (and, frankly, even if he did drive), the money spent must be absolutely ridiculous. If the parents are funding these trips, there's no ground to stand on, at all, and the LW is just as complicit. And I don't think the LW is that daft, or clueless, so it appears either she or the BF are funding the trips. If so, how are they funding them? If it's via a credit card, STOP IT! NOW! Holy smokes! WTF, over? If it's not card, if the LW or BF have money of their own to be used so indiscriminately, why aren't they using it to get financially independent from the parents? Hell, I worked at a full time job through college, and paid my own way through school, so I have no patience whatsoever for those tied to their parents' purse, ESPECIALLY where there are strings attached to what is supposed to be a gift (education and/or room and board).<br /><br />In the end, though, something that I think you may have glossed over too much for the LW (although I know that you didn't miss this) is that there's no "standing up" to mom. There's only leaving. I won't get into it here as this is your column, but it's abundantly clear. Mom is beyond help and won't be swayed. Leaving her is the only option. And, if BF had a spine, he'd have done it already. LW needs to know this and needs to know that BF isn't likely to be able to make a clean break. Further, something else that I know that you noticed, but you didn't hit on due to your impeccable manners, is that the LW is acting exactly like mom. She may want to do some soul searching on that. Her letter made the hair on the back of my neck stand up and, if I were the BF, and genuinely not liking my mom's behavior, I'd be just as concerned with and paying attention to the LW's. And I'd be planning to leave BOTH of them. Just sayin'.SmagBoy1https://www.blogger.com/profile/06579694369460538262noreply@blogger.com